Primal AF
Welcome to the Primal AF Podcast with your host, Jimmy Napolitano, where we explore the journey of self-discovery, personal growth, and transformation in pursuit of a balanced and fulfilling life. Join Jimmy and his guests as they share powerful and raw personal stories of breaking free from non-serving habits, overcoming adversity, and evolving into stronger, better versions of themselves.
This podcast is for those seeking inspiration and guidance in their own personal development journey, especially men looking to overcome their struggles and discover the greatness within themselves. If you're ready to ignite your own transformation and embrace a life of fulfillment, purpose, and authenticity, tune in to the Primal AF Podcast.
Primal AF
Leslie Cockrell on Running with Feeling
You guys are gonna like this one. Leslie Cockwell jumps on, and if you are not a runner, you might be after this one. She has been around the Ascend group and also has a coaching business
Leslie talks about her passion and what makes her run with feelings. Check it out and tell me what you think.
Look her up!
@runwithfeeling on IG, TikTok
Leslie Alexander Cockrell on FB
you guys are gonna like this one. Leslie Cockwell jumps on, and if you are not a runner, you might be after this one. Leslie talks about her passion and what makes her run with feelings. Check it out and tell me what you think.
Jimmy:Leslie, Jimmy, you look like you got a little
Leslie:tan. Oh yeah, dude, I'm out in the sun every freaking day. It's just like, it is what it is.
Jimmy:Yo, I'm like you. I don't know. Yeah, you kinda are. Talk to me about this. I just read this and I thought it was kind of funny. Baby Leslie is now a badass. What, what was that?
Leslie:Uh, that was my nickname growing up. Uh, cuz I'm the baby of the family. I'm the youngest.
Jimmy:Well, that's awesome. Well, hey, thanks for coming on. Proud of my way off.
Leslie:All right. These things are like messing up. I don't know what's happening. So. Yeah, one of'em doesn't charge, right. So they get, they die now.
Jimmy:Hmm. Where they get wet, you
Leslie:know, maybe,
Jimmy:maybe. So there's a lot of wear and tear on stuff when you're an ultra runner, ultra distance
Leslie:runner. Uh, yeah. Everything is just like, uh, thrown around, sweaty, and, uh, just covered in gel. Go gels.
Jimmy:Is that what you use? Go gels? Yeah, I do too. Mm-hmm. I like those. There's done a lot of, I mean, there's some process stuff in there, but it's not bad. All right, Leslie, um, so hit me up. Let's, uh, I wanna get into like a little bit about you and like a little bit of background where you started and then where you're going to. Okay. Kinda like that journey along the way. So give us a little background because we don't know, we don't know shit about you right now. Okay.
Leslie:So, um, I grew up in Tennessee. I was, um, I'm the youngest of, uh, three daughters. My mom and dad were in the ministry, so my dad was a pastor for 26 years. Um, I was actually born in Massachusetts. He planted a church over in Rhode Island. It's a fun fact about me. Um, but we mainly grew up in Tennessee and around high school he kind of decided to not be a pastor anymore. And so, um, I went to, I was in high school and then I was in college. And, um, I started kind of getting involved in like horses. So I did horses for a long time. Um, I went to school for it. Uh, I was on the rodeo team Rodeo. Yeah, pretty
Jimmy:much rodeo, I don't think. Yeah. What's it called? Like dressage when they kind of like, Horses kind of like,
Leslie:yeah, yeah. Uh, so yeah, after college I actually started working for a dressage trainer and I started learning more about dressage and it, it became actually one of my favorite like disciplines, I guess, with horses. It's like super technical and really strict and it's, it's really crazy how those horses can do that. Um, and so, yeah, and then after that I moved to Alabama to live with my sister cuz she had two babies. And then I just have always had the travel bugs. So I became a flight attendant and I was a flight attendant for five years. And in that time I met my husband Jeremy, the love of my life, and we moved Charleston. Yeah, he's, he's the, he's the best. Um, yeah, so we, uh, moved to Charleston. We've been living on Folly Beach now for, I guess five years. And, um, and then the pandemic happened. I started in real estate, uh, because flight attendant was not really an option at that point. So we did that full-time, um, both of us. That was super fun. Um, and then I started to kinda like want to be more healthy and so I started like running more. Um, I randomly went to this. I, I knew this guy from this retreat I went to with Aaron Beki and Ian and um, Danny Diaz, he's the other coach of the retreat. Um, and at that point I just needed some mindset shift in my life. Um, but the dude was a runner too, and he was like, Hey, you can, um, you know, are you a runner? I was like, yeah, I am. I'm, you know, kind of off and on, but not really consistent or anything. And I've always wanted to run a marathon, but I never really did it. And he was like, well, you could do it right now. Like, what are you talking about? Like, you could go and do it like, In two weeks, like, what's the problem? And I was like, well, I guess now that you say that, I guess I really like, you're right. Like I don't really have any excuses to be honest with you. He was like, I mean, you'd hurt, but like you could do it. It's not like you can't do it. And I was like, yeah. So how far were you running at that point? Oh, I was running like three miles once a week. Like okay. If that, um, I never really like run that much. And when I would run three miles I was. Walking half of it because I would, I didn't know how to run. And so, um, So, yeah, so then I just, I was like, you know what? Fuck it, let's just train. And so I trained for a half marathon last year, um, by myself and did it. And then Danny was like, Hey, I've got this retreat. You wanna go to Montana and run 22 miles? And I was like, yeah. So trained for that. That changed my freaking life. Like total, everything changed when I signed up for that thing. And um, then after that, I mean, I can go into all of it, but like, you know, I just basically kind of got this bug. Um, and at the end, at the finish line I was like screaming and hooting and hollering and just like having a good time and just like celebrating and just felt so good in my body and, um, and. Somebody said, I guess it was Dan, my, my running coach, he was the other coach in the group and he was like, you had a good like 10 miles left in you. Like you could have gone for longer. And I was like, really? He was like, yeah. So then one thing led to another. Danny Diaz basically talked to me and into training for more. Cause everybody else was like, let's do this 33 mile one or whatever. And I was like, kinda like thinking to myself like, yeah, I feel like I could do that, but like right. Yeah. Like everybody was sign up for 50 K. Everybody in the group that had like, that was in the retreat together. Mm-hmm. And then Danny was like, why don't you do the double one with me, the 52 miler? And I was like, Ooh, now you're talking. And so I was like, yeah, but I, I would need to hire a running coach. And he was like, well, you got one right over here, Dan. So then I went over to Dan and I talked to him and hired him, and then just trained and did the 52 miler in January. And then after that I realized that I didn't hit my ceiling yet and I wanted to do more. I'm just, I've just been a very curious person. And I'm just am so curious about what the human body can do in these distances and stuff. And so now I'm training for a hundred, and now I'm a running coach because people need to learn how to run and I love it. And it's like so much fun. So that's, so I feel
Jimmy:like that's a, I feel like it's the very short amount of time to go from like, Hey, I am running a three mile, uh, three miles a week to, I just banged out a hundred.
Leslie:Yeah, that's like two years. That will be like two years total. That's
Jimmy:not a
Leslie:lot of time at all. No, it's crazy. It's, it's crazy. And like I talk to people about this shit and they're like, they think that I've, I've been doing this for years, and I'm like, no, I, I literally just started writing. That's what I thought. Yeah. Everybody thinks that I've like been doing this forever. I'm like, no, you have to realize like I'm new to the fitness world. Like, I'm like newer to this world. But yeah. So
Jimmy:you said that you needed like a, a mindset shift. Where were you at and then what did you need to shift to?
Leslie:Yeah, I, um, so Jeremy had joined, emerged the mastermind that we're part of in January of that year. So was 2021. Yeah. And, um, he was doing all this stuff like vision and purpose mm-hmm. And just like doing all these different personal development stuff and. I had read Jensen Sarah's book. I think a year before that I was kind of motivated to like do more things with my life, but I really wasn't like, I didn't really have much of a purpose or really anything that was like motivating me to do anything more in my life. And I think he said at one point he was like, You know, like, what, what are your dreams? Like, what do you wanna do? And I was like, uh, I don't really know. And so he was like, well, why don't you go to this retreat that I was gonna go to? But like, maybe you could just go on your own and I think it'd be good for you to just kind of like be around these people and see what it's all about. Cuz I was kind of like not really understanding what it all was and mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, that was kind of the thing. I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go to this retreat and I'm gonna. I'm gonna just dig deep and just like see what comes out of this, you know? So, yeah. Yeah.
Jimmy:That's a, I mean, that's a, that's a lot. He, he gave up your spot just so you could do that. Yeah, he did. And then it turn turns into a hundred miles, doesn't it?
Leslie:Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had, he didn't know what was coming, I guess.
Jimmy:Well, so clarity's important, and I don't know. For people like me, it gets us in trouble when we don't have clarity. Mm-hmm. When I was in college, like I didn't have clarity on my goals and I got into a lot of trouble. Mm-hmm. But once you gain clarity, it's like you could, you could shoot off faster because you know in, in what direction that you're going.
Leslie:Yes. Yeah. And I, I feel like up to this point, I've really never had a purpose in my life up until now, before I found running. I can, I can confidently say that I was doing a lot of things based on what I felt like I should do uhhuh or maybe what people would expect me to do. Um, even with horses, like it was, it was fun and I, I really enjoyed it. But not like running. No, no. Doesn't even come close. Um, So running, I feel like was the first time I ever really, like, even when I was, even when I would run before I went to that retreat and kind of break broke through that, like marathon limit or whatever, I would run and I would worry so much about what people were thinking or what Jeremy was thinking. Cuz he would run with me and I would, I'd be like, oh, you know, and I, I did it even for reasons to look good, right? Like I did it for vanity reasons and so everything that was motivating me to do it was all externally. Dictated and once I started to actually think about like, no, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this for myself, this is something that I wanna do. I think that really like made a big difference in my longevity and, and being consistent.
Jimmy:So it sounds like at this point being selfish was so serving to you. Oh god, yeah. For itself, yes. Because we put it like a bad connotation around that, but. I mean, is it really?
Leslie:Nah, I don't think so. I think it's actually more serving, in my opinion, to be selfish because I, I see so much of these people who, you know, I was, I was kind of raised in the household of like, you know, you give your seat up for, for people who need it more, and you know, and that's a noble thing to do. And yeah, like I think it's important to, you know, like, Respect and honor people and like show them how much you, you give and stuff. But I think we take it to this point where we're like, well, I'm giving so much. I have nothing left inside of me. And then you just start to be resentful and then you start to be angry and, and then you're just like, you feel depleted and you can't serve anybody because you have nothing left. Yeah.
Jimmy:You can't fill up somebody else's cup if you ain't got no juice in yours. No,
Leslie:for
Jimmy:sure. Where do you get the juice from? Yeah, no, I mean like how do you, like what motive, what's your long Well, like when you do a long run. So when you're training for a hundred K I'm sure it's more about consistency than, than distance. Like how, how long do you train for that? Like what's your long run like,
Leslie:uh, Well, my long run, they, you know, they gradually get bigger. Mm-hmm. So, like a typical long run, I would say would be like an hour and a half up. So like, you know, it progresses 10% each week. So it'd be an hour and a half hour and, uh, 35 hour and 40 hour and 45. So like every week it progressively gets like five minutes more, you know, or some kind of thing like that. And it can get up to like, you know, six hours it can get up to like, I think, but when I was training for the Rumble, so like that race was, I think it was like a 14 hour race. Mm-hmm. And, um, cuz I, I, I trained by time, not by mileage because it's more of a trail running thing, more of a trail runner than a road runner. And, um, so yeah, that would kind of be what it, what it was. And then, Yeah. I mean now I'm doing, my coach has got me doing like back to back long runs. Mm-hmm. So they're not as long, but they're back to back. So like three hours and three hours. Okay. So that's kinda, I have this weekend, so Saturday, three hours, Sunday, three hours. Um,
Jimmy:so it's a lot of time
Leslie:on your feet? Uh, yeah. Yeah. I think I calculated at one point it was like 15 hours a week of running. Okay. That I'm.
Jimmy:So, I mean, when you, when you break it down like that, it doesn't, I mean, it's not too daunting, but I, no, I feel like when you're going through something like that, you get, I mean, it's not like, it's not like you feel good all the time. No. Like there's, there's like, there's discomfort or there could even be injury. How do you, how do you Yeah. Kind of distinguish between the two? Mm,
Leslie:that's a great question. Um, So my coach, he, he preaches stability and mobility like, I mean, like, it's his job. Like he literally, like, he, he basically built his business on like his mobility programs and stuff. And, um, I didn't know anything about it. And so when I started training with him for the Montana one last year, he made us do it along with our runs and like he would teach us to warm up before we run and then cool down after you run. So like, the cool down is more of like flexibility. Pieces. So you, you know, you stretch your hamstrings, you work on your hip flexors and all those different things that runners feel after they run. Like, things get tight. Um, depending on what type, you know, depending on how your body is composed. Like you gotta, what I learned after, cause like the, after the rumble I felt wrecked. Like I, I was like, I felt like. Something was going on with my hips, like I just felt one was like super tight and it was super painful, and I didn't know what was going on. And I thought, you know, I just started Googling one night laying in the bed, which I should, you should never do that. So, all
Jimmy:right, you're gonna die. Yeah,
Leslie:yeah, yeah. So, um, you know, they got like all these names, like the runner's knee and they got the runner's hip or whatever. So I was like, okay, maybe I got the runner's hip, which is, um, and so.
Jimmy:All the doctors in the area are like, yes.
Leslie:Right? Like, they're like, that's exactly what we want you to do. Um, so anyways, I talked to my coach about it and I was like, we d we debriefed after the race. And I was like, I gotta tell you, my hip is screaming at me like something's going on. And he told me, he was like, so, um, and I even had concerns before that, let me back up a little bit. So I would ask him, when I first started running, I would ask him questions like, Okay, so I've got this pain in my Achilles tendons, and then it goes away, and then sometimes it comes back and then sometimes it goes away. And he would tell me over and over again, like, okay, this is completely normal. If it persists for longer than four days, let me know. But mainly he told me like general rule of thumb, if it's still hurting after like four days. Then you need to like go and like get it checked out. You need to like talk about it more. And so that was kind of like my gauge for everything. Cause I had like lots of fears when I first started that I was gonna have a heart attack that I was going to like break my, I was gonna get like stress fractures, like all this stuff in your brain, you know, you're just like, cuz you don't know you're in unknown territory. Yeah. Um, so anyways, so I did that and then I. After the rumble, like it persisted. My hip was hurting and so he was like, you can go to the pt, get an answer. Or you can just keep guessing and just like, you know, I think one thing I learned too is that athletes, they try to avoid admitting that they're in pain a lot. Were so trained to just like bear through it. Um, so anyways, I spoke up and I was like, I'm in pain. I need to get this figured out. But I was so afraid to lose running at that time. I was just so worried, whatever. Anyways, I went, they told me like, you know, basically you have, your hip flexors are so tight and you are, um, your quad dominant. So like all this glute stuff back here is so weak. Like you've got. Tight calves, you got a whip in your foot. So like all these little inconsistencies that they showed me mm-hmm. When I was there, they were like, basically do these exercises, like strengthen that core, get some more stability going. Um, And so I started doing that like religiously, like even more than I did when I was training. When I first started. I did my mobility like hardcore and I also added strength training. So that obviously made everything better and I haven't really had pain since. And I just kind of like understand now what my body needs. Like when I feel a pain I'm like, okay, it's cuz I need to roll this out. Oh, I need to stretch this hamstring. And um, I think that's one of the things that I've learned along the way is that. My friend Amber told me she was a CrossFit coach for years, and she told me in that time she was like, you just need to accept that like you're gonna get injured at some point as an athlete, like it's gonna happen. So just understand that you probably will get injured. So like it's really just about learning how to navigate those injuries and making sure you address it earlier rather than later. Mm-hmm. And so that's kind of like, Maybe my spiel for that. Did I answer your question? I
Jimmy:feel like I kinda, yeah, no, I mean you, you exactly did, it sounds like, it sounds like you went to like a more holistic, so instead of just running, so you're doing the strengthening exercises to stabilize the muscles, but also you're kind of realizing that the discomfort or injury is just a symptom of something that's going on. So you almost address the symptoms like you, yeah. Once you feel that, you know, it's because something is not adding up. Maybe it's. Too intense or maybe, you know, and you case something's too tight. So you have to get the, uh, you have to get the answers to that, that way you could solve the issue. Mm-hmm. Totally. Yeah. And sometimes when we're athletes or like, kind of like boneheads about like, well, my hips hurting, or my, my, you know, for me it was like, uh, for me it was, it was actually my right hip and I was, um, it was my gait. And I wasn't, I, I was kind of like, it was almost like fast walking. Mm-hmm. Um, and it was hurting, it was hurting my hip. And I was like, what the hell's going on? And I did a couple exercises and it was like two weeks. Um, this guy Rob Green helped me with, with my, uh, with my form. So I was like, oh, shit. I was like, all right, cool. I mean, cost me. A hundred bucks for a gate analysis and, you know, I feel comfortable running now.
Leslie:Yeah, that's, that's when you like, that's really like the way to do it, in my opinion, because I, I, I, I went to the chiropractor every week when I trained for the Rumble in January. So like, I was like going weekly and they would adjust me and I would be sore like magically, like the day before I went, and then I would get it all figured out and then, I would feel better, right? They would pop my hip, whatever they needed to do, Uhhuh. And so after a while of going to the chiropractor, I just, it felt to me like more of a bandaid than actually like solving whatever was going on. And so I stopped going like probably before Christmas, cuz it was like kind of like traveling and all that shit. And then I, um, So then after that I was like, oh, maybe my hip's hurting cuz I haven't gotten adjusted. And then I decided, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna, I've, I've got them if they need them again, but like, I wanna actually figure this out. Like I wanna know like my body and like understand like what is it that's getting pain and like what weakness do I have and how can I make that stronger? Um, because I don't just wanna, I don't like, I, I love the chiropractor. I love what they do. I do feel better a lot of the times, and I really like, I love the idea of it, but I think. You know, it just, a lot of these things are kind of businesses, and even when I went to the pt, they were like, so we're gonna need you to come every week. And we're, we're, we're gonna. And I was like, no. Like, I'm here. Exercises. Yeah. I was like, I'm here to learn exercises. I'm here for you to tell me what we weaknesses I have, and I'm gonna take this information and I'm gonna go do it myself. Thank you. And you know, like, to me that's the better approach. I feel like that's
Jimmy:a, I feel like that's a euphemism for life. Like Yeah. That's kind of like how. How high achieve is work, like what is our weakness and then how do we make it better? So it's not just about running. I'm sure you're like that in, in real estate and business. It's like, all right, what can I do? Um, how's my crm? Where can I get better? You know, where am I, where am I struggling here, and how do I get better?
Leslie:Yeah. I, I really like, I really am, I'm very much of a, like, learn on my own kind of person. Mm-hmm. You gimme the information. All right, I got it, I'll go do it. You know, like, just leave me alone. I've got it. You know, like, that's just kind of how I like to operate, I guess. What do you think
Jimmy:the, um, because you have to go through a lot, I guess. I know when I was running a, a long distance, I would have emotions and some of'em would like, you know, stop me from running. And some of them were very motivating, but it's like, it's like ups and downs. How do you think. You know, going and training for long distances helps you overcome everyday adversity or maybe like, you know, things that come up in your way.
Leslie:Yeah, so. God, the fucking stories that my brain can create when I'm on a long run. Like, it's insane. That's why I'm so curious about it. Like, I can't wait for this hundred miler. Cause I'm like, what? Like, I think of it like an ayahuasca trip. Like what's gonna come up in these, like, you know, in this run, I'm sorry if I'm, I, am I allowed to cuss? I don't know.
Jimmy:Fuck no.
Leslie:I forgot. I was like, oh yeah, maybe I need to like censor myself anyways,
Jimmy:dog. You don't know who you're talking to.
Leslie:Ok, good, good, good. Um, so anyways, yeah, I just, uh, when I on these long runs, I feel like, and even like when I would run before, I would allow those emotions and those feelings to stop me before, like I think your brain goes into this like survival mode. Of like trying to come up with more excuses on why you should stop and why you should quit. And even like, my brain will come up with the most embarrassing story from elementary school that ever happened to me. Mm-hmm. And it will, it will come to my brain right around the, like, coincidentally at the same time when I feel start feeling tired and fatigued on mile 20 or some kind of shit like that. Like it's really crazy, like how the brain works and what I've learned. With those emotions and feelings that come up with it is like, Number one, you just have to just accept the inevitable that it's gonna come. It's gonna happen. You're going to have these like wild emotions that come up and then it's always, to me, it's an indicator of like, okay, what do I need to learn here? What do I need to deal with here? Like, what's the lesson? Um, And I'm very fortunate cuz I've had a lot of mindset coaching, so I know how to kind of navigate those thoughts and feelings and understand that like, just cuz you have a feeling doesn't mean that it's a whole story. You, it's, that doesn't mean, you know, like making meaning out of emotions is it's really like a muscle. You have to, you have to like, uh, work. And so, um, So, yeah, that, that's something that I've learned like, you know, in those long runs, you're in that moment, you're like, all right, well we're here, we're out in the woods. And so, you know, I could either stop, I could give up or, and go back home because I'm feeling like I'm a piece of shit, or I can just keep going and see what happens and see if I can just kind of like wait it out. And I feel like that's one thing that I've really learned through this is like just to be patient like. I'm, I've realized that I'm way more patient than I really thought I was, because I can really wait out some pain. Like I can wait out some pain, emotional pain, like my, like, whatever it is, like physical pain. I'll wait it out and I can like, I can really get to the point where like, it just kind of, I feel like it just fucking gives up and it's like, all right, well nevermind. And then you get that second wind and the pain goes away, you know, like,
Jimmy:It's almost like you, you treat it for what it is. I think one of my friends, uh, Ken Kendo, um, he kind of, he told me a story about, you know, sometimes a storm comes by and the storm just wrecks shit. The storm isn't good and the storm isn't bad, it's just the storm. It's just what it does. So treat each, each challenge just for what it is. It's not bad, it's not good. It's just there. Yeah. Um, but almost relating to the stories that come up, that's. Probably, and I'm working on it, so I'm not sure if it's still a toxic trait or if, if it's a past toxic trait, but I have an innate ability to perceive myself as the underdog. Even when I'm not, and I, I kind of relate to you there too, because, you know, I'd have stories that come up and I'd be training for like, you know, doing a long run and all of a sudden, you know, I'm getting tired. But, you know, there's this motherfucker that made fun of me in, um, kindergarten. Mm-hmm. Fuck you, Craig. But, um, no, Craig. But, um, yeah, and, and then the stories would come up and like, you know, what, if I saw him today and, you know, what do I do? And then what about in seventh grade, this motherfucker? And then, you know, it just, it just spreads out, but then it goes away. And I don't know if it just kind of disappears like a dream, or if I, if, you know, all of a sudden I'm like, you know, three more miles went by. I'm like, oh shit. I just ran three miles and I was just like, daydreaming. Mm. Yeah, but it's like, you know, your mind just kind of goes and it just wanders. It's almost like. You know, you say it's like a muscle, it's almost like relax and it's free to roam and you know, whatever happens, happens. Yeah. There's a lot of emotion that comes up sometimes, you know, like, ah, damn, I feel good. And those are the good runs. And sometimes, you know, I've cried before, you know, just, you know, just thinking about like, my mom that died and you know mm-hmm. Things that she would say to me, and you know how she's like looking down at me. I'm like, oh fuck. And then, you know, yeah. Same thing. And then I was like, what the fuck? Um, the hell just happened. Yeah. Yeah, I'm out here in the woods by myself, but I'm, yeah.
Leslie:Oh my gosh, yes. That, oh my god. That happened to me the other day. I was like dry, like not dry heaving, but I was like weeping, like, or whatever, like running, cuz I was just in my fields and I just like, all of a sudden it just passed. And I didn't have to cry anymore, and I didn't have those feelings anymore. And I guess maybe just the endorphins or the dopamine kicked in or something and I was like, oh, I'm. And it was just like such a quick little change and I was like, well, that's a gift. Thank you. Running. You know, just like, yeah. I found that if you resist it, it gets worse. Like if you really try to like not cry or if you like resist those feelings coming up and you try to like ignore it. Like I know a lot of people talk about like when you have pain and running, you just kind of gotta just. Barrel through it, and you just like force yourself to get through it or whatever, and you just, you say those mantras over and over again of like, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm a badass. I'm a badass. Like, I found that that doesn't really work for me, like for me, because I, I just, uh, the more I find it, the stronger it comes. Like it's mm-hmm. You know, you resist it, it's gonna persist. And so for me, I just found that you just gotta sit in it, just get deep with it, you know?
Jimmy:What do you think that teaches you? Because I'll tell you what, whenever I've, like, I've let go emotionally and I've gotten angrier if I've, you know, if I cry a little bit, I mean, there's no embarrassment afterwards. I mean, I think it's one of the healthiest, the healthiest forms cuz there's no judgment. I mean, there's like a squirrel running by me, he ain't gonna judge me, so fuck you. But, um, but like, there's a, it's so natural and it's. It's kind of like, it's a free release. It's almost like, you know, your free pass out in the nature.
Leslie:Yeah, yeah. Like what I all the squirrels in the world, like what are they thinking about us? Like crying.
Jimmy:Oh no. They just out there trying to get they nut.
Leslie:That's right, that's right. Um, you know, I, I don't know. I think it teaches, I could go, I mean, I feel like it can get so deep and I could talk about this shit all day long, but I really, I think the biggest lesson is that. Like pain is also a positive emotion in some ways. Mm-hmm. Like as crazy as that sounds like my relationship with pain now with running, um, and now translating this into my real life is a whole different story. Cause I'm still integrating all that and like working on that. But like, Physical pain. When I feel physical pain and running, like I have this like positive reaction to it where I'm like, oh hell yeah, now we're getting somewhere. Now I'm gonna see some results. Cuz I know that after this pain and after the soreness that I feel I'm gonna get some fucking results. Yeah. And I'm gonna feel better and I'm gonna be a better runner because of this like, If I'm out there running and I don't feel pain for days, like I feel like I'm not doing anything. Like I feel like I'm not getting any better. So maybe that's a little bit of a masochistic view or whatever, but like I really have like fallen in love with the pain of it because it really feels like, okay, yeah, like this is teaching me something today. And it usually is that, be patient, um, understand the process, you know, like. Think about the process, not the goal. Um, You know, understand that like every day you just gotta take one step in front, in front of the other. That's a huge lesson I've learned. Mm-hmm. Pain is just a state, it's not, doesn't mean anything. It just, it's just a state of being and it's just part of it. And they're all equal Emotions like anger and fear and anxiety is just as important as happiness and elation and laughter. Like they're all just there and that's what being a human is about.
Jimmy:Yeah, you're exactly right. Like, so you, you mentioned, you know, you have a process to get to your goal, so. Mm-hmm. I mean, I feel like for me, especially, I didn't really get to good goal setting until I got the nutrition and I got the fitness part, like dialed in because now I could take, yeah. I could take these habits of doing these things on time. I'm very meticulous about it because I know how to do it. But now I can translate this into like, you know, habits of a relationship or habits of work, or habits of mm-hmm. Um, building wealth. Mm-hmm. Um, mm-hmm. So what, how do you think that that correlates for you as far as. You know, goal setting for running and then spreading that across like all the domains of your life. Mm.
Leslie:I think what the first, the first way I translated it into my life was like having expectations and like understanding that like, you know, just because things didn't go your way, that doesn't mean that it wasn't a win. That just means that maybe you didn't have the right expectations, like, Like, you know, like when I first, and this is also what's so great about having a coach when you run, because they can sit there and help you, like reframe everything that you're thinking and, and a lot of times you feel like, When you first start to run, you feel like I'm not, I, I don't know if I'm doing it right. And I feel like I'm, I'm really like, I don't feel the runner's high right now, and I don't understand. These people are so excited about it and they're, they're feeling so good and like they're accomplishing these goals and I feel like I'm just f constantly just failing and failing and failing cause I don't feel that way. And I think one, one thing that like I. Learned from my coach is like, understand that like, just because it didn't, it didn't go the way that you wanted it to, that doesn't mean that it wasn't a win. Like it's still a win because you're learning more about how to set healthy expectations. Like, and I, I've really been able to translate that into my life. Like, okay, so if I just have healthy expectations, About things that I'm wanting in my life. And I also set those expectations for other people and let them know, Hey, this is what I'm doing. This is what I'm deciding to do, and you know, this is what you can expect from me. And then nobody's left out. Nobody's in the dark, and everyone just understands what it is. And. Like it, like, and I, sometimes I approach my runs that way. Like, okay, this run is gonna be what it's gonna be. I don't have any expectations on how this is gonna go. Mm-hmm. It's fucking hot out here. I'm sweaty. I haven't really eaten much. I'm thirsty as fuck. And you know what I have, you know, it's just gonna be a run, and that's what it's gonna be. I'm not gonna expect to do a pr, I'm not gonna expect. To have a really great run. I'm, you know, a dog is probably gonna run after me and try to bite me, and that's fine. And that's, that's what it's, and like if I just like, you just won't get let down as much by doing it that way, in my opinion.
Jimmy:So. Well, I like that because I mean, what if you, that was the shittiest run that you've ever done, and what if you felt like shit, but also what if that's what winning felt like? Yeah. Maybe that's the expectation. Yeah. Like what if that's winning?
Leslie:Yeah, exactly.
Jimmy:Exactly. Like maybe, maybe we just labeled this wrong. Like we're, we're, you know, I. We're looking for this feeling and we feel like the feeling is supposed to be a good, like, alright, correct me if I'm wrong. Have you ever went out for a long run and your dream, right? You come back and I don't know, you, you banged out like 25 miles, right? You come back and you know, I expect me know my wife and my kids to like be in the driveway. Be like, yeah, you fucking crushed it. Get a job. You know, here's breakfast. No, that's not what it is. You come in. And they're like, yo, where's my breakfast? You didn't get me McDonald's. I'm like, McDonald's, what the, we're prial in here. You know? Like, yeah, you didn't, you didn't, you, you left the garage a mess and you didn't fold the laundry. And, you know, but that's what, if that was winning. Yeah. We have the expectations of what we think it should be, but then the reality of winning is, is different.
Leslie:Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's not about it honestly, like, That's the thing too. It's about the process. It's not about the results. Like the, the process doesn't like to be rushed. It doesn't like to be, um, predicted. It doesn't like when you assume anything about the pro, like the process is going to be what it is and. At the end of the day that that's what it is. And if you can just accept it that, you know, it's all about the process. It's really not about the goal. Mm-hmm. Like with the things you learn and the, the stuff that you take from all this kind of stuff. It's really not the end goal. It's more about what's going on in the now because that's, that's all part of it. So,
Jimmy:dude, you must sleep a ton. What's like, what's your recovery like?
Leslie:Oh, I do more recovery than I. Fucking run. Like I, I'm like constantly just in recovery mode. Like I, um, so I, okay, so I had, I was doing like eight hours of sleep, so I'm an eight hour queen, and I was going to bed at like nine o'clock, waking up at five, nine o'clock, waking up at five. Mm-hmm. Um, but lately I've just kind of taken the pressure off of that and I've given myself like two more hours of sleep. So now I wake up at seven. And that has been huge for me, first of all, in just like my recovery because I feel like I really just need those extra two hours sometimes. Yeah. Um, I also take some, I'll, sometimes I'll just take a nap these days, um, because of my training load. It's, it is like imperative that I do my warmup before my run. So that's, that's a 10 minute job. Um, just to get all those muscles firing and get my heart rate up before I start, cuz that could reduce a lot of soreness. Um, so warmup. Um, my cool down after my run. I usually do that at night, so that's just like stretching. And my hip mobility is also in that. So that takes about, I mean, if I really do it right, it's like a 45 minute process. I'm gonna be real with you. I usually do like 20 to 30 minutes. 79. Yeah, because I'm just like kinda lazy at the end of the day too. Um. And I, you know, I'm just, I'm trying to do, I'm, right now I'm trying to conquer this like, habit of like 120 ounces of water a day. Okay. Um, which is kind of a lot for me. Like, that's a little bit difficult for me to do. Um, and then I just started doing sauna and cold plunge. So I would say I do that about three times a week. Usually in the, on the weekends, like in between my back to back runs, I'll go to the sauna, you know. I'll do like 20 minutes sauna and then I'll plunge for a minute and a half and I'll do 20 minutes of sauna plunge for a minute and a half and I'll, I'll do like two to three rounds of that. And that has been huge for my recovery. Like that really takes a lot of like inflammation down in my body and like the soreness that I feel in my back cuz I. I don't really sleep well. Like I don't, I've never really been a great sleeper. Like I don't really wake up feeling like, oh, I'm ready to tackle the day, and it doesn't matter what bed it is, like my back is sore all the time. My neck, I hold lot of tension in my neck, so I just feel like I'm, I'm. Most of the time, like I feel like I'm not really comfortable laying down in the bed in my body. Um, maybe that's something I need to look into more. But yeah, that's pretty much my recovery routine. Like I told my coach two weeks ago, I was like, I've doubled down on my recovery because that's what I found makes everything better. In my life, like if I stretch a lot, I sleep better. If I do the sauna, I sleep better. Mm-hmm. Um, my skin is better. If I cold plunge, the swelling goes down. So I don't feel like in my joints kind of like the pain. Like, I mean, Jeremy says I have a lot more pain than most people cuz he doesn't really have soreness. Mu pretty, pretty much ever. And I've just, my whole life have just kind of like, had like my knees pop and my back kind of hurt sometimes and mm-hmm. So, So, yeah, those are the kind of things that I, that I do.
Jimmy:So it's kind of like part of the self-care routine. Is there, yeah. Is there anything else that you, you kind of do to, to have that self-care? What's, like, what's your relationship with that?
Leslie:Yeah. Um,
Jimmy:I mean, mine is like, mine's like yoga. Um, I get, you know, frequent massages and I say frequent, but they should be more. But it's also kinda like emotional stuff, like saying, Hey man, Um, you don't have to do this. You don't have to prove anything. You just want to, you know, it's kind of like you don't have to, you don't have to run 13 miles and they'll go run 15. I'm like, yeah, I just did anyway though.
Leslie:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I feel like honestly my running is a lot of my mental. Uh, solitude. Like I get a lot of solitude from running. Sometimes I just do it silently. Um, uh, sometimes if I, if I am good at my schedule, which I tend to not be my, I struggle with that. But if I do get up and run in the mornings before the sun comes up, I love go. I love taking a walk after my run and like, just like seeing the sunrise and just like having some time for myself. I found that like, Alone time really does a lot for me. Um, and then I did, um, I was doing massages pretty frequently, like once a month, which is really nice. My favorite though, which I need to get into is Stretch Zone. Have you ever been to Stretch Zone?
Jimmy:I've heard of it,
Leslie:no. Oh, it is my favorite. To me it's like, I think it's better than a massage. I think it's better than, um, you know, the cold plunge and the sauna like, Basically they just stretch your body for 30 minutes and they, they stretch things that you can't do on your own. Oh, really? And so afterwards, you're sore and stuff, but like, really, like, oh my gosh. They get real deep into it. And yeah, that's kind of like a, the yoga thing. I used to do a lot of yoga. Um, I love yoga. I miss it like,
Jimmy:I do too. I see my yoga instructor in the gym sometimes. He's like, I haven't seen you in a while. I'm like, ah, shit. I dunno.
Leslie:It's sad. It's like, it's like a long lost friend. Like, I'm like, oh man. Like we do anywhere.
Jimmy:I'll catch you next Friday. Friday I'm out running the track. Fuck it. Um, do you put a, do you put a, like a lot of value, like on self-worth on your performance? That's something that I used to do. Like, I was always like, for me to feel good, I need to bring this type of value. Um, not so much in training, um, but the, it does kind of go back and forth, like, you know, I wouldn't put a lot on self-worth, you know, if I had a, like a bad run, but, um, more, more like in other aspects of life. Putting, putting, you know, performance on your value.
Leslie:Yeah, I, I would say yes, the. That's been kind of a journey for me when I, when I had to take a break, cuz I, I've virtually been running since January of last year and I haven't stopped. Um, so when I took a break after the rumble and I went to the PT and they wanted me to take a longer break than I wanted to. Mm-hmm. I did struggle. Um, I struggled with my worth, with my self worth back then. Um, I also, I. See Running has, has kind of, it's been this like morphed, like it's evolved from a very different thing. So like my relationship with running has pe It's not like it was a year ago or six months ago, or two months ago. Like, it's just completely changing all the time. And back then when I was training for the Rumble, it was very much of a like an addiction. Whereas like it felt like it was like my life saver, like it felt like my life raft. Like I felt like ver virtually nothing else in my life was going right besides like my relationship and, and running. And I was really struggling to, because that had become my identity. Like that. When I, when I finished Montana, I started training for the Rumble. Like that was my thing. And I was like pursuing my thing and I was so addicted to it. And. I mean, I think it was a really great time because like it, I have such fond memories of that training period because it was just so good. Um, cuz it was so new and it felt like a new relationship. I felt like it was in this like honeymoon phase where I wasn't coming out of the hotel room for a long time. Like it was like, that was like what it was like, it was just being running for a long time. Um, but anyway, so then having, experiencing that loss really did a number on me and I felt like, okay, what's gonna happen? Like, if I'm not able to run like what I want to, like what, what am I gonna look like? It's obviously like a deeper part of my identity than I expected. So what, what does that look like? And you know, I got to this point, I think I, I think I ate like a gummy or some shit, and I was just kinda like reminiscing on it. And I was like, you know what, if it's not running, it'll just be a different hobby. It'll be solving puzzles, it'll be knitting, it'll be, you know, Doing, you know, things with my nieces and my nephews, like, whatever that is, it's fine. I don't need running. It's, it doesn't define me. I am enough. Um, and so ever since then, I've just kind of understood that like it is, it's a hobby, but it's not my identity. Like, it honestly has just been a really great tool to bring out the, the true me, like the real me.
Jimmy:So that's sounds like wants are stronger than needs. Wants are always gonna be stronger than needs. So you don't need running, you just want to run. And you know that connection there is going to be way more impactful and stronger of a bond. So it sounds like you have like a good relationship with it.
Leslie:Yeah, and I, I, I feel like I've kind of like, I feel like I kind of, in that moment when I was kinda thinking about that, I pretty much kinda let it go. Like I was like, you know what? You do what you wanna do running. If you're gonna be in my life forever, that would be awesome. Maybe one day I get sick of it, maybe I get burned out. Maybe I never wanna run again. Maybe something happens to my body and I can't do it anymore. That's okay. I'm still grateful for the moments that we've had together and that's awesome and I'm gonna enjoy it when I can. And that's just kind of been my mindset on it is like, It's here and I'm gonna enjoy it, and then I'm gonna put it down and then I'm going to go hang out with people and I'm gonna, you know, like it's just, I think a lot of times we do, we take on these identities in these moments because maybe we need that identity to feel confident. Maybe we need that moment to like feel like we are pursuing something or getting better at something. And that's what it was for a long time for me, and I'm really grateful for it. But the end of the day, you know, The most important thing is family. Having you know your loved ones close, making sure that you see them every day. Making sure you let them know that you love them and yeah, that's most important. That was a great share.
Jimmy:Thanks for that.
Leslie:Thanks. I'm, I feel kind of like philosophical talk
Jimmy:about. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I mean, that's kind of like your whole IG and TikTok. I mean, talk to me about that, like running with feeling, what does that mean for you?
Leslie:So many things. I, I came up with that sort of in that same time when I was really just like reflecting on, cuz I really like, I talk to people about this a lot, but like running to me really feels like a, a relationship. Like, it's not really like a sport to me, to me it's like, it's so much deeper than that because we have. It feels like a friendship, to be honest. Like I feel like it talks to me. I talk to it. We have our time together, we have our time apart. Um, and so run with feeling was kind of this like thing I came up with because I'm such a feeler. Like I'm a very, um, emotionally driven feeling person. I'm an empath. Um, And I'm very sensitive. Like I've just been always a sensitive person. So I have felt a lot of times in my life that like my emotions controlled my life and I felt like they, they would really take over. And moments that were really important to like, Understand what was going on, but like sometimes I felt like I, I really could not understand what was going on because my emotions were so strong in those moments. Cause I was getting my feelings hurt, but something somebody was saying mm-hmm. Um, that I really couldn't experience the moment because I was so deep in my feelings. And so, um, ever since the beginning I was able to, even when I would run three miles once a week, it would really help me like just kind of like have a better day. And just be a little bit more leveled out, stable, not feeling like, you know, people are hurting my feelings all the time and, and feeling like, you know, just very balanced emotionally for me and I, what I found is that it, you know, my consistency in that has really brought out this spike. Stability of just being in myself, this like sovereignty of, and this confidence that I have in my body and in myself that like, I feel like, like what I'm saying, like I don't need things. I am, I am enough. Um, but there were moments like I talked about earlier, like in those long runs where it would do kind of the opposite. So it would actually. Bring up more levels and like, it was like, it was like turning the dials and making those emotions and those feelings stronger. And I'm getting chills talking about it cause it's so spiritual for me. Um, but in those moments when I had those, those big feelings, I would feel like, oh no, it's happening again. I'm losing control. And I would just stick with the process of it and I would just kind of allow running to just kind of be like, you know what? It's okay, I've got this. And so I would just kind of run and just let it happen and not try to resist it. And I found that like the more that I run with those feelings, the better I am as a runner and then the better of a person I am. Because I'm able to navigate those emotions without making a huge story out of it and making a huge deal out of it. And I think it in my. Experience the physical pain along with the emotional pain. If you allow yourself to feel it and you don't try to avoid it, if you allow yourself for your body to feel the pain when you run, if you allow yourself to emotionally feel the pain when you run, if you just understand that that's part of the process, you'll get through it faster and the pain will eventually subside, and you'll have those moments of like euphoria and elation and feeling like you're winning and all those things. But you have to allow it to be part of it. So that's kind of my theory behind it. Mm-hmm. It's not really proven, but it, in my experience, that's kind of been the thing. Um, So, yeah, that's kind of what run was feeling. That's where it came from, I guess.
Jimmy:I mean, the passion that you just dropped on, just that if I didn't run before, like I would shut my computer and I would just take off running. I'm like, I wanna get a little piece of what you get from running.
Leslie:Oh, I know. And people keep saying that to me.
Jimmy:Well, sometimes like I'll, I'll go out for a long run. My relationship, my relationship is like, hey, We good, right? We all right? You mad at me? Yeah. Oh my gosh. A lot of times this is really good and it is a good feeling, um, when you suddenly have like those strong, you know, springy runs where it's, it's almost like, you know, the sandbags are off and you just run and you just feel good and free. Um,
Leslie:I felt like it's like kid at recess, like when you're at recess and you're running, like that's what it feels like.
Jimmy:Well, that's cool. Well, Liz, I appreciate your time. I appreciate everything. If, if you had, you know, if you had to give somebody some advice, um, to help them in any way, what do you think that you would say? Hmm.
Leslie:You know, I think, I know it sounds like super, like cliche or whatever, but one thing I've been telling myself recently is, Um, just be your, be yourself. It's the best version of yourself that you can possibly be. It's the version that everybody loves. It's the version that everybody wants to see. And just be yourself. Whatever that looks like, you know? That's perfect. That's that. Yeah.
Jimmy:Thanks Leslie. Um, running with feeling on ig, TikTok, Leslie, what was it? Leslie Alexandria Cocker what on
Leslie:Facebook. Yeah, I gotta put Alexander in there on the last of the Alexander clan. So gotta
Jimmy:do it. Well, I appreciate you stopping by. Thanks, Jimmy. Appreciate you. Oops.
