Primal AF
Welcome to the Primal AF Podcast with your host, Jimmy Napolitano, where we explore the journey of self-discovery, personal growth, and transformation in pursuit of a balanced and fulfilling life. Join Jimmy and his guests as they share powerful and raw personal stories of breaking free from non-serving habits, overcoming adversity, and evolving into stronger, better versions of themselves.
This podcast is for those seeking inspiration and guidance in their own personal development journey, especially men looking to overcome their struggles and discover the greatness within themselves. If you're ready to ignite your own transformation and embrace a life of fulfillment, purpose, and authenticity, tune in to the Primal AF Podcast.
Primal AF
Jon Cummings on the Challenging Beliefs and Gaining Self Confidence
In this episode of Primal John Cummings stops by from the UK. We raced together over at Midlands. He has a great story if you have ever been bullied in the past. Listen to this one. John tells us how he overcame the stories that we create in our heads, it's really about how he's able to stay driven and maintain self-confidence.
Check out his story and let me know what you think. PrimalAFpodcasts@gmail.com. Also, if you haven't yet, leave us five stars.
FInd him @jonmudruns on IG
In this episode of Primal John Cummings stops by from the uk, He's, he's a really nice guy. I met him and we raced together over at Midlands. He has a great story if you have ever been bullied in the past. Listen to this one. John tells us how he overcame the stories that we create in our heads, it's really about how he's able to stay driven and maintain self-confidence. Check out his story and let me know what you think. Promo af podcast gmail.com. Also, if you haven't yet, leave us five stars.
Jimmy:Jimmy, what's up John? How you doing mate? Dude. I'm just, I'm killing it, man. I'm glad you can make it on.
Jon:Yeah, no, I've been looking forward to this mate since you mentioned it a few weeks back. So Good. Have a chat. Chat catch up with you. It's been time since I saw
Jimmy:you. Oh, man. It was, yeah, it's been about a year since
Jon:I've been over here. Yeah, I was talking to Mitch about, it was for the Midlands event, wasn't it, so, yeah. Yeah. Good year ago now.
Jimmy:Yeah. I came off, man. If there was one thing that stuck out, stuck out about Midlands, it was when I failed the Z wall. I almost cried when I fell all that. I'm like, oh my God, it's the fucking Z wall.
Jon:Yeah, it's, it's one of those ones, isn't it? That I've not failed it yet, but I, that will fuck me right off when I do.
Jimmy:Oh man. What's, what's been going on, man? Anything?
Jon:Nah, just, um, life mate. Um. Like family life, getting on with my training, getting ready for the season this year, work. Just cracking on with life mate. Enjoying it. What's the next race? Uh, it's Midlands, um, it's a new venue f and that's, uh, 1st of July. 1st of July and 2nd of July. So exciting at the moment.
Jimmy:Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, I finally, um, I pulled the trigger and uh, I um, I got us a house over here for July. 14th through 16th. So Matt and Liam are coming over and they're gonna dominate in, in my hometown or my, you know, in my freaking country. So, um, it's gonna be awesome
Jon:though. There's a few of you guys gonna go over for it as well. Like, few The American, like Primals.
Jimmy:Yeah, so there's, um, including them, there's like 1111 total. So Josie's coming over. Um, the rest, the rest are from here. Nice. So, um, Middleton Beacon, Chris room, uh, Jacob Clark. Uh, Jacob. Jacob is pretty cool. Him and his girlfriend are coming, but Jacob is actually making, um, a soundtrack for the podcast. Is he really? Dude, it's, it's like, it's kind of like this, like fuck yeah, like guitar. I'm pumped, man. It's awesome. He's, he is been sending like some, some little clips here and there and he is kind of like tweaking it. He is like, man, it's kind of like a sketch. I can't show you the whole thing. Now. I could show you when it's finished, man. I'm like, oh man, this is, this is crazy. Mate, down for that. Dude. I, I need to get a cool background like you have, I need to get like a primal one or something.
Jon:Uh, that's, that's just the curtains, mate. That's, that's, that's nothing fancy back there. It looks, looks
Jimmy:fancy. I got like, I got a bookshelf with no books on it. But
Jon:yeah, I did contemplate in my office upstairs. I've got all my medals up, which would've been just here, but the little one, little one's asleep in the room behind, so. Oh. Like show off. Let him sleep. Definitely let him sleep.
Jimmy:Oh man. All right, John, so hey, do me a favor and just, um, just fill us in on, I mean, maybe a little bit a, a background and how you got started in, in Primal and maybe O C R.
Jon:Yeah, sure. So, um, I've been a runner since sort of school sort of age. Um, I used to do like cross-country and ram for my sort of local town and stuff like that, which is just like perfectly trail running and stuff. And then the last 10 years or so, I got into sort of just running generally just for my own fitness. Um, it was injured a lot, you know, when you just sort of like go out and knock out 5k 10 miles the next day kind of thing and just. Don't really have a clue what I was doing. So was going through that. Um, and then it was, um, COVID hit was, was the main thing. Um, and then I had a group of friends as we were coming out of the first lockdown that were sort of arranging Stu, a tough mother Uhhuh. Um, so I agreed to do that. And me being me, which is part of one of my issues, is that, um, I was like, Hmm, I don't wanna let people down. So, Signed up for some coaching through a, a different program, Uhhuh, which was a kind of like a balls to the wall kind of, um, beast yourself every day kind of training plan, which was, was great. And I know it works for some people, but I didn't quite get the results that I was wanting. I needed to lock down my nutrition a lot more. Yeah. Yeah. And so I am about 18, no, about 16 months ago. Uh, I joined Primal. Uh, obviously I signed up to do a spot and in between all that as well. And did my first Spartan race and then was like, oh, do you know what move up to age group? Might as well just jump straight outta the open waves, go into age group and kind of gone, gone from there, mate. Yeah. So you just jumped up.
Jimmy:So with the, with the first, with the first group that you joined, what was kind of their, what was kind of like their niche? Um,
Jon:they've also, they've pivoted towards, towards like the hi rocks event as well, sort of towards my end, like time coming to an end. But it was a lot of kind of like, A lot of like gym orientated long workouts where you were sort of throwing a lot of weight around, um, running a lot and stuff like that. Whereas when I joined Primal, it seemed so alien to sort of like go out on a math room and try and keep my heart rate beneath 140 and stuff like that. But like the results for me, like January, like even just six months in was insane. And now, like 16 months in, Like, um, like the, the first Spartan race I've done this season, I placed 13th, which is my best, um, best positioning ever in an age group race. And I'm just like, hard spurred onto, so like, keep, keep pushing, keep pushing it into the top tens towards podium. What's
Jimmy:your, what's your wheelhouse distance? Is it like the, the 10 K or, or is it the beast? I
Jon:think the beast. Oh. I just, because I, I, I feel like I've got a lot in my sort of tank so I can like chase people down a lot more that, you know, if I drop an obstacle, which yeah it does happen, like Twister, when I drop off of that I can sort of like catch people up with, uh, pass me. Cause got as well, so, well, so, cause I'm a bit of a runner anyway, you know, that's kind of worked out a little bit All right for me now. Cause I can just penalty loop around and. And just catch
Jimmy:up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, I'm a little bit. I'm a little busy. What's different? Like I, I wasn't a runner and I had, I had to rely, I was, I'm good at the obstacles except for the fucking Z wall. No, but, um, I, I've, I wasn't a runner, so I w I, I think I tried one of every distance. So I've done a 50 k, I've done multiple beasts, and I've been, I've honed in as the 10 K being the wheelhouse. I just, for me, I think it's the perfect distance. And I was talking to some of your guys over there, like Connor, um, yeah, yeah. And Liam, and they say that, you know, there's a bigger importance on, on all the obstacles just because it's not, you know, running is very important, but you know, it's bigger penalty if you don't, if you don't, you know, pass an obstacle. The penny, penny loops hurt you a little bit more.
Jon:Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't mind the 10 k I mean, that's where I placed 13, so I was, you know, yeah, I would love quite that. But, um, dropped a few obstacles on the way it's, yeah, I, I've loved the Spartan races and like Primo's been a huge part of that as well. So like, it's,
Jimmy:it's fun rolling up with a gang.
Jon:I've, I've never known anything like it, like, like the, the retreats that Matt puts on, like, in just a, a race as well, like the. Camaraderie generally in OCR as well. You just sort of, you meet people, chat to people that you don't know within your group, within different teams. Just love it. That's amazing. And it's kind of, it's me versus me as well, which is like the big thing that I love. Like yeah, don't get me wrong. Want a place well and do all that sort of stuff. But it's me getting around that sort of obstacle course as fast as I can and yeah, challenging the hell out myself.
Jimmy:Well, just obstacle racing just in general as a sport. I, I feel like it's probably the, the most sportsmanship, you know, within different, different people. Everybody's in a good mood. Everybody's there to help you. Everybody's cheering you on even if you're racing right next to'em. Um, yeah, I just love that. And even, you know, with Primal now it's even more tight-knit. Now you're on like, you know, the same kind of structure. Everybody's freaking ripped. Um, and then everybody start, you know, everybody starts. You know, doing better than what they did. Um, and a big part of it, you're right, was a nutrition. It was a nutrition for me. Um, talk about like where you first, where, where you were with your nutrition, what you were doing, and then how it changed. Uh,
Jon:my nutrition was pretty much non-existent, if I'm honest. Yeah. Um, I've always seen it as a dark heart. Like I just, I, you know, understanding macros, understanding how much protein, carbs, and fat I should eat. And I would genuinely just eat whatever the hell I wanted. Um, and then that was probably one of the things that really drew me into primal. Like I had my like intro chats with Matt and stuff like that, and I, I said, you know, the, you know, I love to have like the routine structure of my workouts, but someone to actually help me understand what I'm fueling myself with and. Why as well, right? I, I need to know why, like you're making me eat more fat and less carbs. Just to get that sort of understanding of how I'm fueling myself, like for my own knowledge as well.
Jimmy:Dude, what are your doctors like over there? Because anybody in nutrition over here, anytime I tell'em I macros, their heads explode and they tell me I'm gonna die tomorrow. They're like, you're eating how many fat? Like what fats are you not eating this many carbs? Like the doctors over here are crazy.
Jon:Oh yeah. Just, just, just anything where you say sort of, yeah, I'm gonna, like, my parents will cut off, like the fat off of bacon and stuff. It's like, no, leave that on there. Like that's, that's, that's the good stuff. And salt as well as having to explain to someone, like why sort of like just sat there sort of like licking salt actually off my hands and just like, it's hydration, you know, I'm helping myself out here. Like just I know what I'm doing.
Jimmy:Yeah. Would they look like you? Like, or crazy? Like so, um, My friend Steve Vegan joined, um, joined Primal, and I think it was right before he did. I, I, we were running in a park at the same time when we kind of met up and, um, you know, I was, I was fueling, so I, I keep, I keep the salt just a Redmond salt in a, in a cartridge while I poured it as I was past him in my hand. And I, you know, just licked it and washed it down and he was like, Are you insane? Like, do you know how much salt you actually ate? Oh my god, I don't know exactly. I know it was a lot, but it's, you know, but once you start doing it now, you know, we were at a tree a couple, a couple weeks ago and we were passing the salt, you know, down the table and just licking it. Well, not off of each other's hands cause that'd be weird, but, um, we shared a tuba salt. Um, so yeah, it's, it's pretty crazy.
Jon:Yeah. Yeah, it just, the nutrition, like it's been the biggest part for me, but it's also had, and Matt has mentioned it when I first started as well, like it's drawn the most questions as well in, because obviously like there's a cut down in sort of the calories that I was taking on, and so I dropped quite a bit of weight quite quickly at the start. Um, fat and stuff like that was just dropped. So it did draw some sort of curious eyes from sort of family members and friends who were like, you know, this is so good. And now I'm, I'm in the best shape of my life. And like, it's all because of like sort of the, the help and support that I get from the primal guys and the coaches and stuff sort of setting me on this, this track.
Jimmy:Yeah, it's pretty cool because anytime, anytime you have a question, it's like they're, they're right there. I mean freak, even like Matt Chin Mattin is in what he's in, he's in Everest right now, but like he, he will still an well besides that, he, he'd still answer within 24 hours. Yeah, yeah.
Jon:Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean all three of the coaches as well, like where Matt Chin's been away, obviously running his epic quest around Mount Everest. I've been speaking to Mitch a bit more and just like. I fucking love that guy. Like he's so, like, all, all of'em are, and like Matt Roberts, they're just so uplifting and just come away buzzing, chatting with those guys. It's just like, fuck yeah. Like, just, just bring on the next race. Bring on the next session. I wanna get at
Jimmy:it. Liam's a galvanizer man. Yeah, anytime. Anytime you talk to that guy, you, you're just juiced. I'd want him on my side pocket, like as I'm, you know, as I'm starting to race. Because he is just like a full fucking sand mate.
Jon:Yeah. Yeah. I mate, you didn't see him at the, um, the first race of the season. He, he was in the starting pen 10, 15 minutes before his race went off. He was locked in. Like you could see. He, he smashed the race clearly. Cause he's a fucking animal. I know, but like, but he's just, yeah. Hello inspirational guy to chat to him. Every time I speak to him, Matt Roberts and matching, he's just like, yeah.
Jimmy:He's one to talk to. I mean, he just, just being around him, he's just like a good guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So with your race and in your career so far, what do you think has been the most memorable moment? Uh,
Jon:probably there's been a few. There's been like going around my first spot in race, which was my first 10 K that was, um, Like, I think like most people that do the races, so like it's halfway rounds, like why the fuck am I doing this to myself? Like, this is absolutely grim. And then we finished it and I was like, oh no, when's the next one? Like in the head out on, um, I followed that one up actually I did. Um, it was The Beast in Wales, and that was 2019, October, 2019, I think.
Jimmy:What's the train over there like in Wales? Yeah, that's what I, that's what I figured. Yeah.
Jon:And Wales like, is, is hella fucking wet. Like it, it rains summertime, like slightly ration. But this, that whole week leaning up to it, it had been tipping it down and you were running up hills like that and literally water was just pouring sort of down the, sort of the slopes. And then it was like sandbag carries up there. It took about three and a half, three hours, 40 for me to get round the beast on that. Again, multiple times of like why the doing this? Cause it was burpees as well. And so like you've got no grip on anything. Um, yeah And then, but there's been some good ones. Like I really enjoyed like placing 13th. That's one of probably one of my favorite ones. Cause I've just felt good, strong. Like I had, like I could have given it a little bit more at times. But you know, when he is come off a race and he's like, Ah, fucking nailed that. Like there's more in the tank I can push on from this.
Jimmy:Yeah. Yeah. That's a, I, I've only had that feeling. You know, not a, I mean, I just got started probably about the same, same time as you did, but that's a good feeling at the, at the end of the race, just kind of like, you know, am I just passing out, jumping over the fire? Or do I have a little bit more that I could have gave? And, and oftentimes when you look back, it's like, ah, man, I probably could have, I probably could have, you know, gave it a little bit more towards the middle, but you don't, you don't know what's
Jon:coming up. That's, that's the thing, isn't it? You sort of, you, you're quite unaware. And this was the first year where they hadn't put on the map the obstacles. Mm-hmm. So you were running around blind on everything. So it was the first year that they'd had the Ty Tylene Traverse Oh yeah. In the super. I, I'm fine with it. But you were running up and scene. I was like, okay, things have changed. There was a swim on it as well, like a short swim, like what's going on? Oh, really? Very short. But it was still like, Enough to throw you out. But I quite like that. That's one of the things I was chatting to Mitch about. What? Like when I see a map I can get in my own head and be like, oh, gonna fail at that, gonna fail at that. You know, burpees there. Whereas not having that on there was like, run it. Yeah. Just see what happens. See what's there and yeah, the obstacle was in the obstacles the way, isn't it? And just attack it when I get there.
Jimmy:What did I, I, um, I listened to something, I think it was this morning or yesterday, it said, success doesn't come from taking action. Success, success comes from the belief that you can. So it was more the belief, you know, and the beliefs are just like stories that we tell ourselves that we think are true. So when we go up to an obstacle, I know, I know Matt Roberts has said this a couple times, like, you know, you have to know that you could do this. Before you could do it. So maybe it just takes that part of the equation out, you know, going into a, to an obstacle that I might be spear throw, or it might be rope climb for some people. Or fucking twister, right? It's like, you know, when you don't know what's coming, you don't have time to think about it, and then it's just like, just fucking go. Just
Jon:fucking do it. The fact is like you can do most of the obstacles. It's just sort of, most of the time, especially for me, it's like getting in my head, which is why I quite like not seeing the map, because there's no time for me to sort of overcomplicate things. You just approach something and go for it. And that's, I like that. Like that's, that's the way I want to be on the course. That's what I wanna be in life, is just attack what I've got in front of me and, and go for it.
Jimmy:See, I never even, I never even thought about that part. I'm more, I'm more looking at the hills and the, I'm like, all right, at what point am I full sending in this motherfucker? Like, yeah. You know, cuz I'll, I'll get to, I'll get to a point and it's ju I try and pick a, I'm not at halfway yet. It's more like two thirds on, on 10 K. Yeah. Where I'll pick an obstacle. I'm like, this is where I fucking juice it. Um, That's the fun part. Yeah, yeah,
Jon:yeah. When you open up and you just let rip. Yeah, absolutely
Jimmy:mate. How much energy do I have? Because I know they're always gonna have some sort of rig at, at the end of the race I was like, please, that's where everybody is. I just don't fail this one in front of my family or something. Like, everybody's watching cheering you on, just like, you know, just flop off of a ring or something. Like, God damnit,
Jon:that's what they did last year on, um, The first race of the season was they put the rig right at the end and they'd switched up for the first time and put um, hanging ropes at the end. Oh God. Yeah.
Jimmy:The worst is when, I mean, they usually put the ropes after something, like after a swim or after like a, a mud roll. Um, that, that usually Cause I started running with minimal issues and they don't have a lot of grip when it comes to that. It's like kind of. Might as well just put soap on the rope and try and climb up it. It was, it was pretty tough.
Jon:Wait, without hench. You are shortly. You just mus your way up there. Don't you just sort of, man, no man. I
Jimmy:need my feet. I need my feet for that one. It's tough. I wish I, I I envy those guys that could just do that. I'm heavy man. I'm, I don't, I don't know what it is in, in, um, What, what do you guys measure? Stones, pounds. What? Whatever. Uh, kilograms. I'm 191 pounds. Um, I'd have to go on Google to find out what that is. No, no idea. Yeah. Now we're, we're starting different languages. Like, what the hell? So we won't, we won't talk Celsius or, or Fahrenheit here. Um, what do you, what do you think is, um, one of the biggest challenges that you've had to overcome? Just either in life or in racing or maybe both.
Jon:Uh, the biggest thing is probably sort of just around my confidence and in the racing and primal in particular has really, really helped me with that. Um, so like bit of backstory for you, like, I'm, as a child, I was bullied at school, um, so right the way through to the age of. About 14, 15, but that sort of left my, sort of my own self-confidence. Um, good time, self-worth, um, just not high. So even up until the age, I'm 40, 40 at the moment. So recently, like you wouldn't catch me like chatting in a, a big group or. Um, anything like that. So, when I saw you at the Midlands, I was probably quite quiet, and that's just part of who I am. Mm-hmm. But it's one that work ons that I've had or been working with, uh, matching more recently is to sort of like just build my confidence, my self-esteem and stuff like that. Like I'm running around topless outside now and stuff like that. Like I've come like leaps and bounds, but body confidence, confidence and self-esteem. There've been things that I've struggled with for most of my. I, all of my adult life really. You
Jimmy:think it stem stemmed from, from being bullied? From being bullied? Yes. Hundred percent. Well, let's call him fucker out. Let's go knock on his door,
Jon:mate. I can tell you now I'm, I'm probably more hench than he is now, so. Well, they are so,
Jimmy:I mean, it's the same thing, but I mean, it's, it's weird how that story, how, how old were you?
Jon:Uh, it was up until the age, about 15 or so. So through most of myself, adolescent life.
Jimmy:Yes. It's weird because we kind of hang onto those stories and it almost like pre determines how, how we do everything else.
Jon:Yeah. It, it was Matt Roberts that got me first sort of thinking about it, sort of, he said, you know, where do you think the, like your confidence issues have come through? It's big confidence issues, probably the better way to describe it. Yeah. And it, it comes from that just because like at that age, you're so impressionable and. Um, me and the wife have been doing a lot of work because of our sort of child about sort of like childhood trauma. Mm-hmm. Uh, and how much it does affect you at the age without you even thinking about it, realizing it. Um, it, it's, it's pretty amazing. Like one of the things, um, that we, we spoke about or we've, we've learned is that if you think back to your childhood, like as an adult now, Like, you'll probably remember you, you'll remember good times, but the things that you remember more vividly are more likely to be the negative stuff that's happened to you. Mm-hmm. Because it's that impression on you. The, you'll remember good times, but a lot of that is forgotten. It's the, the stuff that was horrible is the stuff that tends to stick and you, I don't mind. And then obviously it builds up and. Like can affect you into your adult life. It's, it's pretty amazing really. Like that stuff like that stuck with me for so long, but, you know, move forward and learn to move through
Jimmy:it, kind of. Yeah. I mean you almost have to, you have to lean back into it. I mean, I got bullied as well. And it probably affected me not as much as it did you, but there's also, you know, self-confidence issued and probably manifested itself in other ways. Mine was probably, you know, I'm going to be more of a people, people pleaser. So whatever environment I go into, if somebody is, you know, drinking a pin of beer, then I'm gonna drink three cuz I want them to like me, you know? So it was like nons surfing, things like that. Your brain is always gonna fight to protect itself. Because it's so, it's sole purpose is to survive. Let's get into survival mode. What do you think that your brain was telling you that you know, that you needed to survive? Um, like
Jon:in my adult life, it's just telling me that it, or what is trying to tell me is that, um, if people don't notice you, because you're not talking like that's fine, but if you say something that's stupid, Mm. People are then gonna sort of like, think I'm stupid and like, not attack me. Cause it's, it's really weird, like talking to you about it now. It kind of doesn't feel like it is an issue, but there are times when it does feel like it's an issue. So it, it is quite strange. It's cause
Jimmy:Yeah. Yeah. Even like our biggest problems, you know, if we, we could pick up big, you know, talk about the, the worst story that we had in our, in our brain and then we speak it out loud and be like, no, it's not that bad. But that's the power of kind of speaking about it. And because, you know, I guarantee one or 15 other people that have listened to this are like, you know, I had that same fucking issue. And now that he said it, I could say it out loud. And you know, I've gotten, I mean, the best part about this whole podcast thing is, you know, the couple people that have reached out to me and you know, they sent me a text message like, Hey man, that was powerful. It got me to do this, this, and this. And I'm like, if I could help one person, it's fucking worth it. So. Um, I
Jon:understand. Yeah, absolutely, mate. Like that's kind of like one of the conversations I was having with um, Matt Chin when I started sort having a little bit more into it. It is like, if you could just help that one person and I started doing, uh, like Instagram lives where I was just went up and he was like, just go on there for two minutes and talk crap. And I was like, well, what am we gonna talk about? It's like, and yeah, it's just if one person sort of appreciates sort of that. I've put myself in that really, really uncomfortable spot. And Jimmy, right now I feel like, lean up this hell uncomfortable coming onto a podcast to talk to you about this stuff. Like, but you gotta put yourself out there like comfort and discomfort. Like, well, I took
Jimmy:the obstacles off the that brother, I don't even know what questions I'm gonna ask going in here. So I'm like, you know, there's a level of anxiety for me as well. And it's not, it's not really anxiety, it's excitement. But it's like, well, hopefully I don't suck at this. But that's like the negative voice that is there to preserve us. And it's telling us, Hey, be careful. Don't do this because you know, you might get made fun of, somebody might think that you're stupid, right? But if we just fucking do it anyway, then that voice is like, ah, I guess I was wrong. Right? But it's always gonna be there. I mean,
Jon:that's the thing. We're so good at that negative voice that we do tend to. Like over, you know, it overtakes somehow, like a lot of the time, like, um, I was put into a book, um, the Brave Athlete, um, have you read it or, I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but there's like, it talks about the different styles of how your brain works and that kind of, that emotive kind of thought where it's that first thought that hits your brain. That's that emotion that's your chimp side of your brain that's just taking over as opposed to sort of just reacting, hitting that emotional spot and like, Not thinking about it. It's just like, people are gonna hate you. People are gonna fucking hate you. Why the fuck are you doing this? And then like you have the other side of your brain, which is like, it was the professor side, which is the more logical side, which is the bit that sits back. And it's like, like the conversation we're having now is like, in reality, fucking don't. And does it fucking matter? Like yeah, it, it really don't.
Jimmy:Well, the protection part is, you know, going back to the primal and, you know, ancestral, I. You know, you could think, you know, so what if think somebody thinks I'm stupid, but our primal brain is gonna think, well, if somebody thinks I'm stupid, there's this group and they're gonna kick me out. And if they kick me out of this group, you know, I'm not gonna be part of the, the big hunt and the hunters and gatherers. I'm gonna have to defend'em for myself. Um, I'm going to starve because, you know, I need a bunch of people to help me out. And, you know, I'm gonna starve and I'm gonna die, so I need to be liked by this people. And that's, that's a part of the story. So it's not like it's fake or it's not that you're like less of a person because you think like that it's a real thing. Mm. It's like, how to you, how do you overcome that?
Jon:Yeah. And that's, that's kind of what I've been to working on, is just trying to quiet and down that kind of initial reaction. And, you know, it relates to my OCR stuff as well, where I will like, I'll be. Crapping it right up until the race and now I'm sort of just trying to still there, but it's just kind of like control it. And it's that negative self-talk where it's like you're gonna fail that obstacle. You're, you know, people are gonna be disappointed with you if you sort of come in last. And ultimately, like, I just, like, I keep coming back to, it's me versus me. If I get around that course, whatever fucking happens, like I've got around it. If I finish first to last ultimately doesn't really matter, but like voice. It's, it's that just trying to shut the fuck up. It, it's
Jimmy:like the voice that comes out for me at Olympus wall, um, right, it's, it, it could say, you know, you're probably gonna fail this. You're probably gonna fail it. You know, you have two options, you know, fuck this and go do the burpees or do the penalty lap and, you know, let that voice talk you into that. Or you could talk to your voice and be like, Hey man, I really appreciate you looking out for me. Yeah, let me see if I got this though. So, you know, I'm gonna throw my hands as fast as I can and you know, just go for the best. And if you hit that bell, you know that you thank that voice. Hey, thanks for looking out for me because you know, I'm gonna need you there just in case, you know, I do try and do something stupid like tight rope, walk over a canyon. I need you there for me. Right. I don't need you to be silent. Um, but on things like this, I got it. So, I mean, I think it's helpful in, in both ways. Oh yes,
Jon:absolutely. It's just. It's just quiet an when, you know you've got it. Like, yeah,
Jimmy:absolutely. Yeah, that was, I mean, that was a good conversation. I can't believe made that one up. But, um, I mean, I guess going back, going back into, into like the OCR and Yeah. What, what's your preparation like? Well, leading up to a race? Yeah. Leading up to it. Like more mindset wise, like getting, getting out of like the, the negative talk. But I mean, finishing 13th, you know, what, what were you thinking about going into that one? That's,
Jon:that's the most positive and that's the best that I felt going into that race. Um. Last year was my first year where I was really gonna go through, uh, attack the age groups. But I had a few sort of like injury issues and things like that leading up to some of the races, which didn't help. Mm-hmm. Whereas going into that one, I felt fresh. I felt like everything could been, uh, on point. I'd slept well, I'd eaten well that whole week up to it. Even stuff dances just like the, the, the playlist that I put on to the, on the drive up, like every song on there was just like,
Jimmy:It was a
Jon:banger. It was a banger. You know, you, you just, I hit up there and it was just in the right mood. I was just like, when we met up with some of the primal guys that were there, happily chatting away with them, like it was just one of those races that, one of those days where everything just seemed absolutely spot on. Um, so fully primed and like was, was ready to get at it and. Went in with a bit more of a game plan for it. Actually, either, like a lot of people had said on the beast that they were getting to the first couple of obstacles, like, you know, they have like the, was it the over unders and throughs and the, and the walls and stuff. There was a lot of, uh, log jams. So I'd gone into it even thinking a bit more, um, strategically. So I'd push my way to the front of the line and was like, right, first K I'm gonna hammer it out sort of to get to the front and get over those obstacles. And then, You know, I'm ahead of the pack a little bit. If people overtake again, that's fine, but I've not got caught in a congestion where you just stood there for like 30 seconds waiting for someone to jump over a wall because they're, they're, they're struggling with it. So, yeah, it was just, everything was spot on for that race. So, I'm, I'm, and the, the positioning as well, mate 13th was, was a great position. Really happy with it. And it is that close to like the top 10 now where I'm like, it was enough to sort of be like, do you know what I'm, I'm that close to it as the next race. So like when I've spoken to like Chiney and stuff like that, it's been like, yeah, but that positioning bring on the next race now, because we can, we can, we can push on from this. Like this is,
Jimmy:this is, I wouldn't get down, I wouldn't get down into the dungeons about that one and saying, oh man, I could have, it's because it could have went the other way. Yeah. Yeah. But that's just like, man, that's the one that just keeps you coming back.
Jon:Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was that sort of like that middle ground of like between sort of like the high teens and towards the tens, and it's just like, oh, yeah, that's
Jimmy:a good number though. Especially as many people as there
Jon:is over there. And it just, it spurred me on, like, then I went, my, spoke to Chin was like, we, we readdressed like the, um, my goals for this season in the like, The races that I'm targeting, we slightly readjusted just to sort of try and hit into that top 10 this year and push on into, into, you know, next season. So
Jimmy:what do you think you, what are you, what are you focusing on for, for this year?
Jon:Uh, so just try and, because it's the first race of like the weekend, just try and sort of top 10 in the beast. Um, there's, so there's the spar and series over here. So that was the super in the first race. Ah-huh. Oddly in the next race, it's the sprint only. Okay. Which is like the Sunday afternoon race. So it's just like, I'm not gonna go easy on the other two just to do a like short 5k. So go heavy on the beast. And then the last two is the beast. So just really go at the beast and try and hit that distance and improve on some positioning up. Then enjoy the rest of the weekend. Go eat some steak.
Jimmy:I got some steak, and. Ice, ice the legs somewhere. Do you have any, um, do you have any like superstitions or things that you do differently before a race? Uh,
Jon:Uh, same pair of undies every single time. Yeah. They've got washed up and stuff. Um, no, it, I have the same playlists that I'll always try and play in the car on the sort of the drive up. It's like music's like the, the huge thing for me, like, it, it can get me pumped in the right moon and stuff. So having that on and that, that's not so much superstitions, it's just that kind of this little, little habits that I've sort of picked up that I sort
Jimmy:of try and do. I'll get into, like, I'll get into like maybe different foods that I try and be inhabit, but like I'll always, I'll always put my left sock on before my right. I tie my left shoe lace before my right. It's just been a thing since college.
Jon:Do you know what you, you say that, but. Yeah, it's always right before I left, mate. Yeah. Every single time. Like I wanna switch it up. No. Like same as like if I come to a curb on the road and stuff like that, it's always leave with the right and I'll stutter a step if I sort of like, I can't land properly, it's on my left side. Yeah,
Jimmy:I know. It's like, what if, what if I mess up running? It'll just mess up the rest of the race and be like two K in and be like, ah, man, I just stepped over that curb with the right foot. Oh fuck DNF now. Oh fuck this. I'll try it again next weekend. Um, what do you think that you're looking forward to, um, I guess next for, for your next race?
Jon:I just wanna get at it. Like, that's kind of like, just, just the thing, sort of see the guys like catch up with everyone cuz like, I mean, I love the racing, but like catching up and seeing how, what everyone else is doing within the tribe and stuff like that. Um, and seeing them smash their goals as well. Like, I fucking, I, I, I, I fucking love that shit. Is, that's a, that's a huge driver for me is seeing everyone else like just crack on and. And do their own thing. But I, for me, I just wanna get on with the next race. Like, I, I love the training. I'm in a really cool phase of training at the moment where I'm less gym. I'm more kind of just like running around with weight in the garden and then sprinting off somewhere and coming back. So more Spartan esque training, just investing like a 45 kilo, sorry, kilos, um, slam ball for me to practice, uh, ATLA stone weather and stuff. Oh, there you
Jimmy:go. How so I run in kilometers now. Like I'll talk to like people that you know do running. They're like, yeah, how long did you run? I was like, uh, nine k. I was like, what? I'm like, oh, almost like six miles, five and a half. You know? They're like, oh, why'd you say it that way? I'm like, God, don't worry about it. Um, there
Jon:was a moment at the start of my sort of whole running career where I was having to make a decision, like, do I run in Kyo or I run in miles because. I don't understand what, why, why, why is that too different?
Jimmy:Who knows? I mean, at some point it's just gonna be blended together. But my theory is like, well, the guys that are training me are in the UK and they go by kilometers, so maybe I should too. And then I started weighing myself in kilograms and then you guys have stones. So I'm like, I was just fucking too, too fucking confusing. So I'm going back to, I'm going back to pounds.
Jon:Wait, so what's the distance of your sprints over there then? Cause it's 5K here, obviously, or Yeah, they call'em
Jimmy:5k. Okay, so they still Yeah. 5k 10 K, 21 K. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, they still, they still keep that because it'd be weird to say like, Hey, you're running 3.1 miles.
Jon:That's what I was thinking. I was just trying to work it out, mate.
Jimmy:13 one. Yeah, but I mean, that's, it's never, I mean, you never know how long it actually is either. So you could call it a 5k, but sometimes they're six. It's
Jon:it's never 5k. No, that's the thing I like. I love it. Again, it's like the no obstacle thing. Not knowing the obstacle is just like, you can look at your watch. I'm a super, and you like, it says you've done no penalties and it says you've done 11 K and it's like brilliant. Like I think the village is just around there, but we'll find out in a minute. Oh, there you
Jimmy:go. So, all right, let me ask you a question. Yeah. So you are where you're at now and you have all the knowledge. So if you could go back and talk to yourself when you were 10 years old and give him some advice, what advice would you give him? 10 year old John?
Jon:Don't listen to sort of like the crap, like don't, like don't stick around with the people who are sort of like, um, Like putting you through shit, like putting you through hell. Like the people that I'm, I considered to be friends and ultimately they're not like, listen to you. Go out and enjoy what you enjoy. Um, yeah, just surround yourself and be love being outside, like surround yourself with people that sort of like you and build you up as opposed to people who claim to be friends and. Aunt effectively.
Jimmy:So now that 10 year old John, he looks at you now and you're good looking, you're lean, you're muscular, right? Um, Che what do you think he thinks of you as far as you know, what you've accomplished? What do you think he would say to you? Yeah,
Jon:where I've come from, like going through everything that I've been through, like. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't had all of that sort of experience. Mm-hmm. So I'm hoping that 10 year old John would look at me and think he's fucking done all right for himself. Like he's got a job that he loves, he's got a wife that he loves, he's got a family and he's doing something he loves as well. Like he's, he's got goals and everything else. And that's kind of my hopes for, um, like the little and with, um, Dunno if, you know, I'll probably put it up in the, the group in a little while. But, um, we've gone through the adoption process. Okay. So we've got a, well, we're going through the adoption process, so we've got a, a little person in the house now. So this is similar to what I want 10 year old John to see is what he was gonna see, which is a guy that is driven, does things that he likes. Um, it's fit and healthy and just like, loves life, like loves being outside. Like, you know, everyone sits and watches tele, but do you know what I mean? Just loves being outdoors and is driven, motivated, and has goals. Like that's, that's the biggest thing. Like if you're not moving forward, just, you know, something still. And for me, that sort of feels a little bit wrong. I'd rather keep moving myself forward learning, growing. Um, That's one of the conversations I had with Matt when I first started this. It was like, I have goals now that I never knew that I did have, and they're gonna keep evolving. And I, and I want that because that's, that means I'm growing because my goals are evolving and that's given me a chance to grow. Like, and that's what I want him to see and that's what I want him to say. And
Jimmy:everyone to say muscular driven, motivated guy. That's. John, that's you, motherfucker. Yeah, no. Well, that's what everybody sees, man. So you just gotta, I mean, you see it in yourself and I'm glad that that's coming out, man.
Jon:Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm honestly, mate, I'm loving life now. Like there's been big changes and I couldn't ask for any more than where I am right now and where I'm going. That's you.
Jimmy:Fucking rock on. Well, hey man. Any, any parting words or pieces of wisdom you'd like to shout out?
Jon:Nah, um, just, I'm loving the podcast though, mate. I'm, I'm a bit behind a few episodes behind, mate, but you're absolutely killing it. Um, when, when are you coming back over here again, max. We need, like, we need some Jimmy over in the uk right?
Jimmy:Oh, man. Soon as, uh, as soon as I get the funds up, man, I, I don't know if I can make it this year, but it'll, it'll probably be in 24. Um, that I can make it back over there. I'll probably send up for another event that all you guys are gonna be doing. Cause Yeah, I'd definitely like to make it over there because my wife goes, she goes down to Florida for a summer, so it's nothing for me to hop on a plane and, you know, catch a flight over there. Just kind of have at it. It's fun over there.
Jon:Yeah, it's, it's different. We had a few guys over here, um, for the last race actually, and sort of, it was interesting seeing and hearing their take on UK Spartan compared to what you've got over in the States. So
Jimmy:smaller. You, if you guys came over here, it's, uh, the Spartans are massive, like Yeah, yeah. Thousands of people. They're massive. So it's fun. It's, it's a lot though.
Jon:Yeah, it's, I, I, I like it over here and it's, I like it. It's just, I love the o c scene. It's just like spot an event just ticks every box for me that it's just, I liked, I said earlier, I went to do that tough mud and it was supposed to be with the team. The rest of the team pulled out, so I ended up running it by myself, which was fucking ridiculous. Um, but the thing between Tough Motor and Spartan, I know they're owned by the same company, but Tough Motor is like a team event and I've run them solo a few times and you know that, that's really, really cool, Uhhuh. Whereas what I love about Spartan is that it comes back to it's me versus me again. Like it's, yeah. See what I can lay down out there and I, I, I, I fucking love mate. It's, yeah. I'm, I'm pumped to see where like this season goes, next season goes for me. Everyone within Primal, you guys over there just.
Jimmy:It's growing. It's growing. That's what I love about it. It's just like the, this whole thing is, it's, it's getting big and people are, are noticing. So gotta start lesson.
Jon:There's, there's resource, isn't it though? I mean, you picked up your, um, your first place at, was it Savage Race? I think Remember fucking congrats to that, mate. I mean, that's, that's fucking huge. It
Jimmy:was and I stopped making that. The game plan. I think the game plan for me is just, Health and longevity. Um, that is just like the hard part. The race for me is waking up, you know, before everybody gets up, before, you know, my wife and kids get up and, you know, training. Then for the health and longevity, the Spartans and the, and the Savage Race, that's, that's fun. I mean, I pay some money and I, you know, Get with a bunch of people. I'm an extrovert, so I love talking to people anyway. Um, even getting a bunch of us going, going together and like, I don't really care how I do. I'm just gonna try my hardest. Um, if I end up getting first fucking great, um, I'm a fucking animal. If I get fucking, you know, 170 fifth, that's fucking great too. At least I didn't step in shit, you know, see the positive side. So, um, I appreciate it, but man, it's all, it's all fun now. Yeah.
Jon:Well, it is, suppose it's, you see it more as getting around the course and stuff like that, where you've just put yourself out there, challenge yourself, get to see some people.
Jimmy:Nice. We're 40. I mean, look at us. We're 40. This is what 40 looks like. Like boo.
Jon:It's not bad, is it mate? Like,
Jimmy:dude, like I'm saying, that's what I tell my kids. This is what 40 is supposed to look like. You eat, right? You play around, you get some sunlight. It's what you do.
Jon:It's what I assuming. I wish I sort of was aware of it a lot sooner if I want, because like I feel fucking great. I mean, I could tell everyone I'm in the best shape of my life. Like, like I knocked out my half marathon PB again, like this weekend just gone and just like knocking PBS out. I don't mean my forties is like, I know it. Yeah.
Jimmy:And we're, we're going, we're going this way too. We're going up, so, fuck yeah, mate.
Jon:Fuck yeah.
Jimmy:All right, John, where can, where can like the listeners follow you on Instagram?
Jon:Uh, so I'm just, uh, on Instagram, it's John Mud runs.
Jimmy:John Mud runs. It was a pleasure having you on, man. I really appreciate you. I know it was kind of like, you know, stepping outta your shell a little bit, but, um, fire dude.
Jon:Cheers, man. It was, it was just pleasure catching out with you, mate. It's, uh, it's been some time and I look forward to when, uh, when I get to catch up with you again soon. I can't wait.
Jimmy:All brother.
Jon:All right, mate. Uh, yeah. Um, enjoy the rest of your day, um, races and when the Primal Tribe come over in J July, does he say July,
Jimmy:July 14th? Yeah.
Jon:I look forward to seeing some Instagram in all that, mate. Absolutely.
